6 hozzászólás

• Brumi

  2011 március 4
  10:31 de.

  Valóban nem világosak a Fidesz akciójának a mozgató rugói. Ők azt mondják, szabaddá kívánják tenni a tájékozódást, pedig ha széthordják az anyagot, azzal csak eltüntetik a bizonyítékokat. Ez lenne a cél? Emellett a politikai pártok eddig arra használták az adatokat, hogy a saját padsoraikban ülő képviselőket megzsarolják, az ellenoldalon ülőket pedig lejárassák velük. Vajon az lenne a cél, hogy ebből egy új, figyelemelterelő nemzeti sport nőjön ki?
• Kaslik Péter

  2011 március 29
  6:15 de.

  Hol olvasható maga a Tiltakozás szövege?
• Christopher Adam

  2011 március 29
  9:52 de.

  Az alábbi PDF dokumentum 13. oldalán találja a tiltakozás szövegét. Ezt a dokumentumot küldtük el Pordány László ottawai nagykövetnek.

  http://www.rev.hu/rev/images/content/rendezvenyek/christopher.pdf
• Kaslik Péter

  2011 március 30
  6:50 de.

  I checked the list of proposed laws of the Hungarian Parliament, but no official proposal exists anywhere, or in any form that comes even near to what your „Petition” suggests. I would appreciate, if you could produce such a proposal for your readers here. Your „Petition reads: „The Government of Hungary plans to pass a law allowing for the removal and destruction of original archival documents…” Laws are not passed by governments as you claim, but by the Parliament of a country. I am astonished that neither you, as a University instructor of History can commit such a basic error. I also find it strange that none of the 1400 distinguished co-signers of your Petition found this gross error relevant, or cared enough to point this out to you. It seems to me that your whole enterprise of petitioning is just another attempt to depict the Hungarians as a nation incapable of running their own affairs properly. There is also concern about the gross imbalance of your sources, namely the Klubrádió in Hungary, and individuals close to it. The Klubrádió in Hungary is the laughing source, and the butt of jokes about lowly propaganda, and cheap entertainment. It is also common knowledge in Hungary that the current owner of Klubrádó was a previous communist informer himself. I think Canadians deserve more balanced, and really truthful information about present day Hungary.
• Christopher Adam

  2011 március 30
  9:16 de.

  I am sure that you are not suggesting that Resolution 1283/2010 XII.15 does not exist, as it appears in the Magyar Közlöny, the Hungarian government’s official gazette. You can read about this in the 190th issue of the Közlöny, on page 27108, published on 15 December 2010. We base this petition on this source, as well as on a press release published on the Government of Hungary’s website (Kormányzati Portál):

  http://www.kormany.hu/hu/kozigazgatasi-es-igazsagugyi-miniszterium/parlamenti-allamtitkarsag/hirek/megszunik-a-kenedi-bizottsag

  Please take a look at the fourth paragraph of this document and the following words, in particular:

  „Az új törvényi szabályozás értelmében a megfigyeltek nemcsak betekintést nyernek majd ezekbe a dokumentumokba, hanem haza is vihetik a jelentéseket. Az állam a nem jogállami eszközökkel készített aktákról nem gondoskodik, az emberek saját maguk dönthetik el, hogy elteszik, unokáiknak megmutatják, vagy nyilvánosságra hozzák, esetleg megsemmisítik azokat.”

  Klubradio is not a „source” on which this petition or any of our information is based. It is simply a media outlet, which interviewed me on two occasions, and covered the petition and issues surrounding Resolution 1283/2010 XII.15, along with Élet és Irodalom, Népszabadság, 168 Óra, Független Hírügynökség, The Economist, Associated Press and Radio France Internationale.

  As we have already mentioned on numerous occasions, not only is the prospect of the destruction of national archival documents very problematic, but the plans expressed by State Secretary Rétvári are impossible to achieve, without denying thousands of survivors of Hungary’s communist secret police their right to access these documents. Anyone with experience researching Hungarian state security files knows perfectly well that most of these documents do not refer to a single individual, but rather to groups of people. If the proposed law passes by November 30th, 2011 as planned, who could walk away with the originals of these files? Would they be distributed on a first-come, first served basis leaving all other survivors with nothing?

  Who will have the right to obtain the originals of files pertaining, for instance, to the Magyar Élet newspaper, based in Canada? In November 1982, a Hungarian secret police agent using the pseudonym of „István Kovács” tricked Magyar Élet’s editor-in-chief and his family into thinking that he was an academic, lived with his family in the Toronto area for a month and took detailed, systematic notes on the activities of everyone affiliated with the paper. If Resolution 1283/2010 leads to a new law, these files will be among thousands lost forever, not to mention a long series of other documents detailing the activities of Hungarian communist spies in Hungarian communities in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and elsewhere.

  As a historian who has researched and published on Hungarian communist state security, I have a duty to speak up when any government’s plans carry the explicit risk of the destruction of archival sources crucial to understanding the true extent of communist repression in Hungary.

  See my essay on this topic in The Hungarian Studies Review: http://epa.oszk.hu/00000/00010/00042/pdf/HSR_2008_1-2_109-124.pdf
• Kaslik Péter

  2011 március 30
  3:54 du.

  Hello, again Mr. Adam

  Thank you for your prompt, and detailed reply. I still think that you are painting with a very wide brush here. You should have clarified in your Petition that this is a proposal to be decided by the Hungarian Parliament, not by the government, as your Petition reads. Yes, I am familiar with the Proposal of this law, but you did not refer to it in the text of your Petition, so it is unclear what you are referring to, therefore the people still don’t know what they are signing. The full text of the above Proposal reads that the proposed law would allow the removal of only those documents that have been obtained illegally. I am sure that you are aware that Illegally obtained information, or alleged information is not considered to be public documents. Not in Canada, and not in Hungary either. Public documents are only the ones based on the existing laws, and created according to a prescribed procedure. In other words, the “public documents” that you are trying to preserve, are illegal inscriptions in gross violations of an individual’s human rights, and a person’s human dignity. Based aon the above, the person whose rights have been violated this way has the full right to remove them from public view.
  It seems to me that your aim is to create an issue depicting Hungarians as undemocratic, and unfit to manage their own affairs.